Group discussion > Spirituality

Spirituality

Aleksandar Malečić
565 days ago

I don't understand the word "spirituality". Is it a belief system? Is it sending good vibrations? Is it a perception of the world and seeing poetry in every leaf and snow flake? I can meditate and "become one" with a snow flake, but it won't make a difference. It's not enough to shave your head (I know, some people feel "spiritual" if they have long hair and beard) and keep on smiling and dancing. A shaved sheep is still a sheep. Just look in Google all those images of sitting and smiling people (with more or less hair than an average person), lights, stars, candles, symbols, paths, mountains... If I choose to meditate or smoke marijuana, I shall probably feel "spiritual", but this feeling won't change anything.

Aleksandar Malečić
563 days ago

I suppose that spirituality means different things to different people: total nonsense, religion, something similar to religion, seeing poetry and beauty in nature, different perspective and perception, hope... Whatever it is, it can't be a goal, the final destination.

Aleksandar Malečić
560 days ago

A single set of legal or religious rules will hardly be helpful in increasingly complicated circumstances. Whether their origin is human or from God(s) is irrelevant - they are expressed in human languages. This century will be some kind of conclusion for all previous activities of organized societies.

Aleksandar Malečić
557 days ago

Which religion or spiritual teaching could help us to deal with (e.g.) overpopulation? It doesn't exist. We can pray or meditate all day, it just won't help.

Aleksandar Malečić
551 days ago

I have my opinion about spirituality and (non)existence of purpose. Still, it may change tomorrow. Also, whichever it is, it doesn't help much to figure out what needs to be done.

Aleksandar Malečić
549 days ago

I've read an interesting explanation what is spirituality. It says that spirituality is an individual approach to religion and ultimate truths. We need something capable to deal with peak oil and climate changes. Perhaps a certain amount of philosophy can help us to see things differently, but personal freedoms should be aligned with collective goals.

Aleksandar Malečić
544 days ago

Our concepts of right or wrong, justice or injustice and our priorities may be reexamined relatively soon. If we hesitate to do things that matter, if the worst (and very likely at the moment) scenario happens, all of our activities will be pointless. Can you enjoy your work and life or hope and enjoy anything when everything around you is falling apart - the environment, societies, states, lives?

Aleksandar Malečić
541 days ago

There are many ways to perceive the world around us. If we feel spiritual, ecstatic, joyful, interconnected or however, it doesn't change anything in our small piece of the world. We should move beyond that feeling into action.

Aleksandar Malečić
538 days ago

This meshwork's member Jim Garrison: "We have entered Shamanic times. This is the central metaphysical truth emerging from our escalating climate crisis that is now endangering the basis of human civilization itself. Climate change is unleashing primordial forces, the intensity of which we have never encountered in our long history, and we must enter “primordial mind” in order to navigate adroitly through the turbulence that is now inevitable." (view link - I hope the link is still active at the moment you are reading this comment).

These thoughts are in my opinion similar to Nature, Civilization and Consciousness by Emilios Bouratinos (view link). I don't quite understand how we can move beyond the fact of living in "Shamanic times" into something practical.

Aleksandar Malečić
512 days ago

I have a belief system. As long as it makes me persistent in trying to do something beyond my self-interest, I suppose it is fine. No matter how many "facts" or "political realities" or environmental complications prove me wrong, I'll be trying to believe in a purpose and one more chance.

Aleksandar Malečić
442 days ago

One approach to spirituality is to accept the fact that we as individuals are too small to understand the bigger picture, the whole chain of events. A really passionate and devoted environmentalist is on the hero's journey moving against the tide and trying to figure out the best activity to do at the moment. Spirituality/mysticism/passion as presented in the book "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle doesn't require superstition or belief in supernatural. It's about the acceptance of the fact that you are too small to understand the whole journey. People should do their part step by step and hope that they will (no matter how indirectly) influence the change. We are like ants in an ant colony. As long as we hesitate to do what we can and stick to the status quo, it will be complicated later to do anything.

Aleksandar Malečić
416 days ago

With or without the number 2020 in the sign of the Climate Solutions Meshwork, the next years and decades will be very challenging. The change (to better, to worse or to a mixture) right in front of us will be enormous. I might be exaggerating when I say that need something equally big (or bigger) as transition from hunters/gatherers to settlers. The line between playing god and problem-solving will be very thin or maybe even nonexistent.

The whole situation will be something new to all of us. Religious moral codes and legal rules will be in trouble while looking for universal cures for modern troubles. Politics and economy (with the idea of eternal growth) as we know them should be totally redefined, but how? Will good intents and selfless be enough? There is a huge gap between the future challenges and our knowledge. Average (or below average) people are still being elected for high positions in politics. Priests can hardly give good advices that can apply to any situation. Scientists can provide us (increasingly pessimistic) data and predictions about climate changes, but any step (because of interconnectedness with many ever-changing circumstances) will bring very uncertain results.

Call yourself an atheist if you want and think that only uneducated and/or stupid people are religious and spiritual. Your belief won't change the fact that something terrifying is in front of us if we don't figure out what to do. You should better put your ego and respect the situation. Science and soon to be invented gadgets won't by themselves solve the problems. Not anymore. We need wisdom. We need to be brilliant. We need to hope that our brains (inherited from our ancestors from the past) are capable to deal with new challenges. There's not a big differences between such kind of hope and prayers.

We are frontally reaching the limit of our knowledge and many people are either totally unaware or don't want to think much about it. I am aware that my contributions to this meshwork are not brilliant. I am doing my best. I am trying to find in my ever-changing attitude toward religion and spirituality enough of strength and enthusiasm. I shall never give up. I have no right to do so. Perhaps there are better designed and outthought initiatives and internet networks. Any of them will face the same problem of fear, anxiety and lack of knowledge and relevant previous experience. All of us need to find some kind of spirituality or hope and self-discipline beyond our egos.

Is our lifetime a transition and a birth of something new or is it a beginning of constant agony and instability? I don't know. I'll stick to my semi-religious and constantly changing belief system. Call me uneducated and stupid if you want, but I can find some peace in it. I can't find peace in turning my head away. Not anymore.

Bearing in mind all those changes in social, economic and environmental realms, can you really be sure that my writings here or any of your contributions to sustainability makes or doesn't make sense? Will you do your best? If not, why not?

I wish you good luck with your decisions or lack of decisions. I know you'll do your best. You must do our best. You understand it, right? Look for your strength in your knowledge, religion, spirituality or whatever makes you move in the right direction.

Aleksandar Malečić
393 days ago

I am a Christian. Christianity is my starting point and final destination in the spiritual journey. But, I tolerate other religious and non-religious beliefs. I don't know whether this comment is aligned with Christianity (or your religious belief) or not, but I suppose that asking questions won't do much harm.

Is yoga a Hindu alternative to prayer? Is a believer practicing trance-inducing shamanism or transcendental meditation a good believer or not? An atheist can practice yoga, meditation, Zen koans or other way to experience altered states of consciousness (I am heavily against drugs) without any harm to his/her non-religious belief. It's true that atheists, after experiencing alternative ways of perception, might sometimes be easy victims of destructive cults (nationalism and political parties can also be cults). But, if some techniques to figure out certain things work for some people, do I have a right to criticize them?

Monotheism developed during a very specific moment in human history, between two ice ages. It belongs to organized societies. It focuses on human interactions with other people. Shamanism and paganism belong to hunters, gatherers and barbarians. Practicing monotheism and its moral values requires some kind of stability. You can hardly make a person who can't feed his/her children or who doesn't have enough clean water interested in philosophy of personal relationships. I don't want to say that any religion has loopholes. Our way to understand everything, to grasp complexity and interconnectedness in a single moment has loopholes.

Our generation and all following generations will meet huge challenges. After a long time, we shall be like early pagans when they were trying to understand and control winter, thunders, floods and hunger. Religious people and atheists alike will ask the same questions. Their approach to those questions will differ, but the questions about purpose and interactions with other people and the environment will be the same. This is the last generation which will be able to ignore the fact that there is a huge challenge in front of us, a gap between or necessity to do something and our understanding of what to do and how. Priests, economists, scientists, managers and engineers will look at the same void. Are we about to reach the biggest societal change ever or will the future bring us an unsolvable chaos and instability?

It's not time for new religious movements. We shall indeed start living on the edge of our understanding of phenomena (natural resources, biodiversity, economic and biological globalization, climate change, overpopulation, consumerism...), but we don't need a new religion or ideology to give us new universal answers. New religions wouldn't only be heresy. They will never be able to go as deeply as a religious or non-religious belief of your choice (hopefully you have chosen the right one). This also applies to any kind of new paganism, because we shall need to improve our society and communities in the first place. More functional interactions between people will be the starting point.

We need to be good people doing the best possible things in order to avoid a disaster. With or without religious belief, you are a witness of an emerging global consciousness. You are, just like me, a brain cell in a bigger global brain. There is a hypothesis that you can reach any person in the world within six degrees of separation or less. I strongly believe that people who are aware of this meshwork's existence as a whole can reach any person involved in sustainability or renewable energy within three degrees of separation. Actually, knowing one's e-mail address makes one degree of separation, but I am talking about already existing and relatively strong links in the network. Religious people and atheist alike are, aware or not, parts of a bigger transpersonal consciousness - just like ants in an ant colony.

Aleksandar Malečić
313 days ago

Ken Wilber is very respected by some people as a philosopher, guru, whatever. All you need is to properly put your ideology, spirituality, macroscopic and microscopic world into his Integral Theory and all problems will be solved. You presumably won't need any other religion.

We are an animal species just like any other. What if the world is totally indifferent about our existence and survival? Put THAT into Integral Theory. The best theory, if there is any, is the one that brings the best results. Try to put Godel, Heidegger, Buber or Bachelard, free will and teleology into Integral Theory.

Aleksandar Malečić
239 days ago

I don't think that the people in charge care much about spirituality, whatever that is. They are more "rational" and "practical", so practical that they are collectively putting us against the wall. Instead of thinking in advance and preventing problems, they would rather spend trillions of dollars on solving them.

Aleksandar Malečić
154 days ago

Some people interested in so-called spirituality tend to believe that all you need is to live in the present moment and through meditation or prayer reach a mental state of constant bliss. In my case, the more I understand the world and people around me, the more is this knowledge in collision with my belief in some kind of purpose. What if we aren't about to reach a more fair global society? What if we shall face the stage of collapse and perpetual agony? Now that would hit really hard and awaken people interested in spirituality.

Aleksandar Malečić
121 days ago

Both "rational" and "spiritual" people are wrong. Whether they see the ever-changing world through "feel-good" or "feel-serious" lenses doesn't really matter. If you don't feel agony and pessimism about the current situation, you don't really understand what is happening. Without blood, sweat, and tears and focusing on relevant issues you can't move forward. You can only run in circles.