Group discussion > The Unknown

The Unknown

Aleksandar Malečić
867 days ago

Let me start this topic (I hope it will become a conversation) with a short version of my life story. What has brought me here? My concerns about our environment? Not really. Political protests? Well, probably (they are more a symptom than a cause). My childhood memories? I don't know. So, why am I here? I like adrenaline. I am afraid of the most benign threats to my physical health, but I like this kind of adrenaline. The combination of environmentalism and networking is the most exciting thing in the world that can't break your leg. How do you deal with the unknown future? Which events have brought you from your birth to this place?

Aleksandar Malečić
847 days ago

Do you have free will?

Aleksandar Malečić
828 days ago

How our minds work? Where is the origin of consciousness in classical and quantum physics? I have my answer to these questions, but this is not the place for this kind of discussion, especially because I might be wrong. What is interesting for me here is the concept of anticipation, defined by Robert Rosen (and it seems by other authors under different names). Anticipation is expectation, aligning to future events ("memory" of future events). The physical nature of consciousness (deterministic or non-deterministic) is irrelevant here. The only thing that matters is that anticipation works, it's very similar to creativity, and it's different than reaction. Here view link you can find an interesting text by Mihai Nadin about anticipation. I like this quote: "Moreover, in the cooperative-collaborative realm, one can identify many Websites where the expectation to transcend the authorship model of action-reaction aesthetics is obvious. To create under the expectation that many others will eventually continue the work changes the notion of locality, originality, authorship, and copyright."

Aleksandar Malečić
792 days ago

There will be a lot of confronted information about how much time for fighting global warming (just one of many increasing global problems) has actually left. There are optimists who think that we'll still have more than two decades before things become really ugly. If this is true, it's always nice to have some extra time, but there still remains the fact that we discuss more about Antarctic's sovereignty than about things we should have started doing long time ago. It looks like we are trying to squeeze the last remaining drop of sustainability from this planet.

Aleksandar Malečić
790 days ago

Does anyone believe that "the financial crisis" was the last one? One can see it as a crisis or as an opportunity, reminder. The following years will be very uncertain. The only way to be certain about the future is to continue with business as usual. It will bring us to economic (with many people having less than nothing) and environmental abyss.

Aleksandar Malečić
738 days ago

We need the best ideas and the best approaches to all those increasing global problems. How our minds work? Let's see how the most known people, synonymous for psychology and psychiatry. I apologize for mentioning "ancient" scientific authorities, but I'll compare Sigmund Freud and Carl Gustav Jung.

Freud tended to see neurosis, traumatic childhood and promiscuity behind creative processes. He was probably right. Still, we can try to think in a more optimistic way. Jung observed the same world of psyche and conscious and unconscious mind, but he saw individuation, development and growth, just like a plant grows from a seed.

You will nowhere find a similar comparison, so I might be wrong. It seems that in Freud's approach mind behaves like a machine, a mechanism able only to react. I find similarities between Jung's approach and Robert Rosen's concept of anticipation. It's irrelevant to discuss here about the physical existence of anticipation. The only thing that matters is that it allows one to see the same world through different lenses.

If I stretch my imagination even more, I can see similarities between individuation and anticipation and Theory U (U-Process). This theory supports acting and not reacting, doing things and looking the unknown future straight in the eyes. Perhaps this world and our minds world are indeed causal and deterministic. Thinking in this different perspective might be illusory, but it's a nice illusion. Even better - it works.

Aleksandar Malečić
737 days ago

Similar to anticipation from the previous text is intuition. What is intuition? Probably even psychologists have a problem to define it. It's something that happens between your conscious and unconscious mind when you feel that you are doing the right thing. My intuition has told me that somebody would create this meshwork or something similar. In the future the need for this meshwork (or something very, very similar) will increase. I can't tell you exactly how I know that. I can check this conclusion and divide it into smaller steps, but it's not the way I've come to it.

Aleksandar Malečić
679 days ago

If I wanted to anticipate positive outcomes of my activities, it would be nice to have trust to other members of this meshwork and in their quality as persons and experts. There is a critical mass of quality members and people aware of this meshwork's existence. They hesitate to participate, but I trust them.

Aleksandar Malečić
675 days ago

I am more afraid of some certain things (what will happen if we don't devote our lives to this cause) than of uncertainty (obstacles, challenges, bad habits (my included). Don't react - anticipate.

Aleksandar Malečić
650 days ago

I shall bear in mind that year 2020 until it happens. Whatever happens, this meshwork and similar initiatives will be necessary to accelerate activities related to sustainability. A network of active members can create an illusion of everyone doing something that matters. At the same time, a member doing nothing in the network can create an illusion that he/she is doing nothing relevant offline.

Aleksandar Malečić
627 days ago

Panic is the least needed reaction to threats. If we delay our actions and keep on following the herd, we will have more reasons for panic later especially because our threat will be outside and also inside (our habits and interactions) of us. The only option left (no matter how unpleasant) is to look the danger straight into the eyes.

Aleksandar Malečić
616 days ago

When one owns or leads a company, he/she can't so easily decide to e.g. allow you to freely "stare over their shoulder" and see the latest thing in their business. If they do so (companies working on renewable energy), the will not be competitive. Competitiveness creates more profit. Profit invested in even more competitiveness creates even more profit. Still, limited resources and the damage caused to the environment means this can't last forever. Also, competitiveness and debts will continue walking hand in hand (hoping that a company will be capable to pay debts later (more profit will hopefully come later)) and they will be stretched to the limits. In deep debts, no matter how good-looking is a company from the outside, it has less than nothing. Something bad will happen. What exactly and what will happen after that? Timing is important.

Aleksandar Malečić
610 days ago

When we are collectively dealing with the unknown, it doesn't hurt to step aside and reevaluate many things. It's much easier to begin with many options in mind and choosing the direction than to begin with one direction and try to change it afterwards, when it's globalized and widely accepted and implemented. If free market forces you to always grow and to dehumanize your relationships with the environment and other people, it's not so free anymore.

Aleksandar Malečić
599 days ago

Have many people (interested in sustainability or not) will ever visit this meshwork?

Aleksandar Malečić
580 days ago

If an activity related to a wicked problem is about to be made, it would be nice to have many degrees of freedom, many possibilities to attack that problem. Even when the choices are made, the activities should be adapted to current situation. Choices to change the direction should be rational. And remember: don't react - anticipate.

Aleksandar Malečić
569 days ago

The problem solver(s) capable to deal with modern challenges is the biggest heretic ever. He/she doesn't have enough time to be burned and posthumously accepted.

Aleksandar Malečić
555 days ago

What is a global bankruptcy? Is it the end of the world or the end of the world as we know it? If we can't solve problems the same way we have caused them, then how should we do it? We are serious people and serious people don't play around. We would play with networks and interactions and with collaborative tools such as this meshwork or Douglas Engelbart's experiments if we knew the outcomes. A certain disaster is almost better than any uncertainty.

Aleksandar Malečić
541 days ago

Backcasting, an opposite to forecasting, is similar to anticipation already mentioned in this topic. It is mentioned here: view link.

If we want to avoid bad scenarios in the future, we must trace them back to the present and try to avoid their origins now.

Aleksandar Malečić
539 days ago

"The bird fights its way out of the egg. The egg is the world. Who would be born must destroy a world." Hermann Hesse, Demian

Aleksandar Malečić
536 days ago

I prefer, while being in the middle of something totally new, unknown and unpredictable, to do some brainstorming, to let my brain and its memories and knowledge (belonging to the past) fall out. There's always time to quote interesting authors and approaches. My priority at the moment is to redefine myself.

Aleksandar Malečić
534 days ago

While dealing with the unknown, we should anticipate and try to see events from the end. Also, we should in a relatively early stage brainstorm, brainstorm and brainstorm. We already have enough problems with globalization and profit as a measure of success. There should be many trials and errors. Even when some activities are made, there should be at least one "fire exit" left. We should define "sustainability" as much as possible before it became too big to fail (view link).

Aleksandar Malečić
532 days ago

Knowing "everything" about the past won't help you to know much about the future. It will just make you more confident. The same applies to your popularity and acceptance based upon the things you have done in the past.

Aleksandar Malečić
529 days ago

I've just read a very interesting book "The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable" by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. Those "black swans" are not necessarily highly improbable. They can be unexpected or expected but never seen before. Just look at COP15 in Copenhagen and COP16 in Cancun. Expect even less will from politicians and acknowledged experts at COP17. They (the majority of them) will never do things that matter. Bigger egos will hesitate more. It's simple as that - cause and effect, action and reaction.

Aleksandar Malečić
512 days ago

Climate scientists seem to be more reliable in their predictions than economic scientists. They are both observing chaotic phenomena, but climate science is more about physics than social behaviour. Even if we observe predictions about climate change from the past, no matter how terrifying they are, they are generally more optimistic than what happens later (e.g. permafrost and methane).

Aleksandar Malečić
505 days ago

Some things are known, but it's questionable how to react as a person. We belong to our "tribe" of people with specific habits and ways of behaviour. If you know and understand the emerging chaos, maybe you still can't do much about it. If you conclude that after the explosion of economy and population now it's time for implosion, you can't be much more than a passive observer. Or maybe something can be done? Timing is important. Also, we must see what is important to keep globalized civilization moving. In order to succeed (or at least not to fail totally), there will need to be a combination of both global and local empathy and global collaboration instead of global competition (and destruction of everything uncompetitive at the moment). It has nothing to do with ideology. It's pure and simple survival under ever-changing circumstances. We can't even imagine how hard will peak oil and loss of raw materials hit us. We need a flexible society focused on not losing things that must be saved and mustn't be sacrificed for whichever lifestyle and tradition. We are just another animal species living (at least, until recently) on an amazingly hospitable planet. There will be more climate changes that humans, if they are "lucky" enough, will witness. This one is caused by us. Free enterprise, fossil fuels, globalization and even our large brains (with capability to create and destroy) are relatively new experiments with uncertain outcomes. It seems to me that atheists are more likely to believe that things will be fine and won't change much. It seems they have replaced God with science and technology. But, nature is indifferent about our opinions. The laws of thermodynamics can't be changed by anyone's opinion. Someone may think that chances for witnessing devastating changes during one's lifetime are very small. Chances to be born on this tiny planet as a human being during the fastest changes ever are also incredibly small, but you are here at that position in time and space reading this text.

We must be brilliant and very smart. As a Serb living in Croatia (I live now in Serbia), I witnessed many stupid decisions and their outcomes. As climate change, peak oil and destruction of our natural habitat are going to affect our lives, stakes are too high to be stupid and ignorant. Society should be reorganized both locally (empathy, interactions, supply chains, work, improvisation...) and globally (empathy, carbon emissions, positive role models, strategy...). We can only hope there is still one more chance left. You (and I) as an individual can try to figure out your position and timing (what to do and when). If you can at least partially understand what is going out, no majority can force you to change your direction. No, I'm lying. They can change your (and my) direction. Your tribe, tradition, religion (even Christian atheists believe in a bipolar world of good and wrong) and habits are too big to ignore. Do you have any ideas for global population control? What kind of laws and political activities can reorganize us both globally and locally? Mahatma Gandhi was encouraging us to be the change we wish to see in the world, but it's not so simple.

No, it's not nonsense. The changes during the previous century (technology, the media, interactions between people, population growth, expectations of eternal economic growth and utopia (socialistic or capitalistic) just around the corner, people moving to towns) were the biggest ever. It's reasonable to expect a similar trend of huge changes in this century. We might not like it, but it will happen. I tend to be partially religious, but perhaps our existence and consciousness are random after all. It's time for more wisdom and less panic. I prefer trying and failing (perhaps, after trying, not failing totally) to not trying at all. Also, I guarantee that no one from my family will be involved in attacking another nation to take their natural resources.

Aleksandar Malečić
486 days ago

The best way to avoid a disaster is to never see how it looks like when the tipping point is crossed. If we still can avoid a total disaster (natural resources, climate change and irreversible feedback loops (permafrost, albedo...), global population...), the best way to do so is to not see the worst possible scenario in its full force. But, in that case, we shall not know what is avoided, how the worst outcome really looks like. Our capability to create and destroy will still be with us. All those billions of people should behave reasonably (only the environment can define our reasonable behaviour - we can only do wishful thinking) during their lifetime. There will always be a tendency to stretch our definition of sustainability to the limit. It's more tiresome to care about everything than to not care at all. How to have freedom of choice when even many scientists don't understand how serious is (e.g.) peak oil? Can this kind of experiment we are in the middle of succeed even in theory? Is "more than half of people surviving" a good definition of success? If this is the case, than birth control and prevention (whatever it is) would be a huge success. Would you feel comfortable in a world with 51 percent of people surviving climate change, peak oil and crises with water, food and natural resources? It's not about our children and grandchildren. Our generation will either succeed or fail. Something enormous must be done by the year 2020. If your herd isn't doing anything about it, it doesn't mean that the problems will disappear if they ignore them. As long as we hesitate, it will be more challenging to do anything later. Even worse, if we do too much damage nature should need under such extreme conditions (biodiversity, forests, carbon in the atmosphere, humans in panic), millennia for self-reparation.

If there is anything too big to fail, it mustn't last too long because it will eventually fail. We need a global circulation of information and knowledge and local supply chains. We have a local knowledge (corporations and their headquarters) and global supply chains. Is it possible to reverse this trend? Do you agree with me that it needs to be reversed? We can try or not try only once. If corporations fail (and it seems they will fail - debts, peak oil, climate change), everything around them (smaller and local companies previously destroyed because they were not the best in the world) could fail even more. We are all cooking in the same soup, no matter of our political, religious or other views. Maybe there is indeed a religion providing the best description of reality, but nature is politically illiterate. We may feel uncomfortable about our need to adapt to changed circumstances, but the environment will be totally indifferent our emotions.

In order to deal with the unknown and radical change, it's time for maturity. Maturity can mean either wisdom or disease and death. What do you prefer? Don't look at your herd for the answer to this question. Find it within yourself. Those people who burnt Giordano Bruno at a stake are as rational as a typical member of your herd (including experts). If we reach wisdom, it will look more like a path than destination. In my opinion, a wise choice is to be farther from thresholds (population, biodiversity, natural resources) and tidal waves of globalization, just in case. Some very important people would disagree (http://2020.global.gaiaspace.org/global/pg/file/malecic/read/17420/outcome-of-the-work-of-the-ad-hoc-working-group-on-longterm-cooperative-action-under-the-convention ). As long as people believe that the Earth is flat or that economy in their country must grow forever (or else...), they will think and behave accordingly. The will even believe that it's better for things too big to fail to fail than to make them smaller.

Aleksandar Malečić
464 days ago

We shall witness something new emerging, something akin to popular culture. Just like the media and social changes changed the cultural landscape back in the day, the new challenges and ways to interact will change things one more time. Chaos and order and improvisation and structure will turn upside down old approaches to doing and advertising things and ideas.

Don't react - anticipate.

Aleksandar Malečić
410 days ago

I don't receive much feedback for my writings here. When I do, it's positive. I agree it's not the best/wisest/most intelligent thing out there, but it's not supposed to be. There should be contributions be many people. It's understandable that the idea of turning things upside down is stressful and confusing to some people and many would hesitate to really deal with it (here or somewhere else). I am not very intelligent. Perhaps this is the reason for my relative optimism. Visitors of this meshwork must notice me and it would be too heavy for me to actually understand how complicated this transition really is. For the same reason relatively intelligent and responsible people hesitate to be involved in politics. The paradigm of eternal growth is our modern dogma and saying anything against it is perhaps an even bigger heresy than saying back in the day that our planet is round. As the complications with unresolved conflicts across the world, climate change and natural resources increase, sane people and those who can grasp all that complexity will hesitate even more. Still, something needs to be done.

My writings here are not an ego trip, far from it. I don't write poetry or philosophical essays here. That occasionally disjointed language that I use here is heavily influenced by my understanding of Marshall McLuhan and some of his ideas. It's time for people who really can (know-how and connections with other people) do something relevant here to contribute more here. They should have some really good reasons for not doing so besides of lack of immediate results. If you are reading this comment, that means you understand sustainability more than me. I'll do my best, but I need you.

"Saving civilization is not a spectator sport." Lester Brown

No one, no matter how intelligent and brilliant, will save the world by posting something here. The only real reason for hesitation to really participate in this meshwork or any similar initiative of your choice is that you think an average politician of yours is a genius and all you need is to follow his/her wisdom and knowledge. Intelligent and people must deal with all that accumulated filth of political reality and irresponsible behaviour. They mustn't step aside. It's already too late, but I know I'll keep on trying no matter what. It's my duty as a relatively educated human being living in this confusing century. Maybe you actually have some other priorities, I don't know. It's too late for being neutral. Hesitation equals with acceptance of status quo. Whatever you decide, you and your children and grandchildren will live with those decisions. This meshwork is a nice place to let your voice being heard. It reached long time ago a critical mass of relevant people (directly and through their network of acquaintances) who are aware of its existence. Post something if you have something to say. Even if you don't, you can still something related to sustainability and provoke other people and yourself to post something better. If you don't, who will? Mind you, it's kind of already too late. Problems won't disappear if you turn your head away. They will be there. Even worse - they will grow and become even more complicated.

We must define sustainability. There are not holy cows (eternal growth included). Everything that needs to be redefined must be redefined as soon as possible. It had to be redefined a few decades ago. Don't blame politicians because you would be forced (hierarchy, silos and elections as usual) in order to use old channels (developed before the World Wide Web and still existing) for reaching other people. Politics as we know it will never change by itself. We need to create some kind of collective genius (Continue when I can't.).

Live with your decisions.

Aleksandar Malečić
247 days ago

We are products of each other through our genes and interactions and events which have shaped the way we think and behave. Also, our plans and belief of what is achievable depend on other people and circumstances.

When a new product is under development, sometimes deadlines can be very precise. When they are driven by previous experiences, (global) competition and the possibility to be fired, it can be relatively simple to define a strategy. While dealing with the transition to renewable energy, there are many uncertainties. It is supposed to replace something already highly developed – vertically organized non-renewable energy utilities. The challenge is both technological (Are there still possible sudden breakthroughs and unexpected improvements waiting to be discovered?) and political/social/human. When the strategy spreads over decades and no one is responsible for hesitation for a decade or two, it’s quite demanding to coordinate different activities such as super grids, smart grids and energy sources. The inertia of the globalized economic system relying on the idea of global competition (un-institutionalized forms of sharing only in order to become or remain globally competitive) is huge. The system’s possible future behaviour is uncertain, but experiences from the past (more or less the whole history of organized societies) is discouraging.

This moment in time isn’t unique because of war on terrorism. If there wasn’t such a war, the people in charge would already invent something to stupefy and distract their flock and themselves. The real (hopefully) tectonic movement is a transition of the way we get and implement information and knowledge. It’s not a linear process and its mere existence is very individual (I am willing to use the Internet for both sharing and searching knowledge in a previously unimaginable way). Another such movement is renewable energy technologies trying to reach a significant level of penetration. There are two networks with problematic agendas. Some people see stages in development of the World Wide Web such as Web 1.0, Web 2.0, Web 3.0… Some other people think that these stages don’t exist since they can hardly be put in the context of technological improvements. There are also people who’ve never experienced the feeling of figuring out or finding some obscure information and people through the World Wide Web. I’ve almost felt (as much as my individual consciousness allows me) the global brain in motion, but I can’t put my experiences into numbers and statistics. I suppose I can’t prove my existence to a hypothetical skeptic, but I do exist. The meshwork like this one (or something very, very similar) could unite those two networks under the same roof. It probably won’t happen here or anywhere else in this virtual realm, but on the other hand it must happen. Even if we don’t have any examples that humans are capable for such a thing, it still must happen.

Someone might say that death is the only thing that must happen. Well, business/politics as usual continued in the 21st century doesn’t differ much from death. Communities are loosened. Money is more easily earned by selfishness and unreasonable optimism (disability to see beyond the current situation viewed through pink glasses). Globalized competition forces the global bandwagon to accelerate into the abyss. The environment is devastated and it would be impractical and even tragic to return the biggest human population ever to the stage of hunting and gathering (or even agriculture). The modern society uses an artificial lungs and heart. Technology and the idea of eternal growth of population and economy are the new status quo, the minimum. Considering the current number of humans, it does make sense to claim that life of an average human is better than ever before. This generation (you and me) is the conclusion of the first invented wheel, the first healed disease, the first controlled fire, the first told story and the first written letter. We are hopefully not the last generation, but the purpose of any human activity will be reexamined more than ever before.